Tools of the Trade

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Because I have page proofs and I cannot stand to look for any more errors at this time of night, I thought I would take a few minutes to talk about the tools of my trade.

I use a Macbook Pro as my main writing machine. This is not a reli­gious stance; I have a PC (an Asus), on which I play games. I fully believe that a writer is more than the sum of his or her tools, and that each of us should work on what­ever plat­form we find most comfort­able.

This is my way of saying that if the comments descend into plat­form wars, I will moderate with the world’s heav­iest hand, possibly because I have read it so many times and there is nothing new.

On the other hand, if anyone has sugges­tions for PC equiv­a­lents of the Mac only apps I list here, that would be great!

——

The first appli­ca­tion I use — and the one I would not be without if you paid me — is Scrivener. It started life because Keith Blount was trying to write a novel, and he found none of the programs he tried up to the task of handling his process. He was not, before Scrivener, a programmer. I find his creation incred­ibly impres­sive because of this.

There are prob­ably a thou­sand ways to use Scrivener; I’m not a power-user. Most of its features are features that don’t suit my writing process, so I don’t use them. The ability to break text into scenes, partial scenes, that follow a loose/tight outline doesn’t work for me; I know writers who love the program because it allows them to move whole scenes from one part of their novel to another with just a drag-and-drop. I know people who make really smart use of the filing card view as well, to denote which chap­ters are view­point chap­ters, or which chap­ters are heavy action and which are quieter. It’s not a view I use, but if you head to their web-site, you can see it in action.

I write sequen­tially, chapter-by-chapter, scene by scene. When I revise, depending on the book, I will some­times break chap­ters into their compo­nent parts — but folder them so they’re contiguous when exported. I can tag those scenes in any way I like, and will often tag them for their struc­tural compo­nents: things that are neces­sary, things that aren’t.

Only when I’ve finished a novel do I make use of the “export draft” feature, which exports the entire book as a single file, in what­ever format I choose. It will change under­lines to italics or vice versa, keep a running page count, and keep a word­count if that’s neces­sary.

Scrivener 2.0 will also export to epub. This takes a bit of set-up and exper­i­men­ta­tion, but once it is set-up, it works like a charm, and produces compliant epubs. It will export to .pdf, .doc, .rtf and .txt as well.

At 45.00 U.S., it’s a bargain; it’s one of the few programs I own that I would pay old-school money for, if it came to that. There is a PC version of Scrivener in beta.

——

Microsoft Word wasn’t always a neces­sity, but as more and more publishers make use of track changes for line-edits and copy-edits, it’s become neces­sary for me. All of my Luna line-edits and copy-edits are now sent in .doc or .docx format. For that reason, I have MS Word 2011 for the Mac in my toolset. I found 2011 a good upgrade because it’s faster than the prior version for the Mac, and I find the layout of track changes clearer and easier to address.

I use it only for publisher-sent copy-edits, but those are neces­sary.

——

Flying Meat’s VoodooPad is a wiki app. I don’t have an on-line wiki – although with very little effort, I could, thanks to VoodooPad.

Why do I use it?

I keep track of the bits and pieces of infor­ma­tion about my various worlds and the novels written in them. If I create a page for a char­acter, every inci­dence of the char­ac­ter’s name will auto­mat­i­cally link to that page. If I’m too lazy to do a find I just type the name in a random on-screen page and click it. I have my time-line, which is the longest single page, my gods, my visible magical effects, magic items, loose ends, char­ac­ters, etc., stored in VoodooPad; it’s like a hyper­linked note­book.

You can make the pages look nice; since I’m not an .html wiz, I don’t. Except for the fonts. It’s a way of keeping the infor­ma­tion I need in a form I can easily revise and add infor­ma­tion to, without having a million smaller docu­ments.

I don’t think there’s a PC version of VoodooPad, but I’d be really surprised if there wasn’t a similar appli­ca­tion avail­able for Windows.

——

I have the Oxford English Dictio­nary as my main dictio­nary. No, it wasn’t cheap — but I made humon­gous puppy dog eyes at everyone in my family at Christmas time. I really like the OED; it’s very compre­hen­sive, and I find it fasci­nating to look at the first (known) use of various English words.

The port is not a pretty port. It confounds the oper­ating system by ignoring most of the basic rules that other­wise govern appli­ca­tion inter­faces. The review I’ve linked I linked because it’s hyster­i­cally funny.

But to be perfectly fair, the PC port is equally horrible, and also ignores Windows para­digms. You don’t buy the OED because you expect it to be pretty, or well-behaved.

—–

Although it doesn’t directly apply to writing, I use Devon­Think as a general aggregator/database, as well. I clip web-pages, throw in .docs and .pdfs, and keep receipts. Again, I’m not a poweruser, and while mail can be archived in Devon­think, I don’t because I can’t stand the messy way it looks. Devon­think has a great search engine, as well, so all the bits and pieces of on-the-fly “that might be useful” web pages or emails that come my way get tossed into the in-box. It’s the equiv­a­lent of the shoe-box for the pre-computer age. There are very flex­ible ways of arranging the data: in folders, with tags, in sepa­rate data­bases with clones (busi­ness, writing, home).

Not everyone is going to love this, but it means I have things in one place instead of all over the drive. If you don’t want or need multiple data­bases, there are similar apps that people love: Yojimbo, by Bare­bones, has a really lovely inter­face, and it’s very intu­itive; Note­book by Circus Ponies, which allows the same clip­ping and pasting of any infor­ma­tion (they have better inte­gra­tion with the overall contex­tual menus than Devon­think), but contains it in a “Note­book”, a visual, literal scrap­book.

I tried them all, which is why I mention them — Devon­think is, imho, the ugliest. But it does a few things the others don’t.

I’m certain there must be PC equiv­a­lents.

——

I want to put in a plug for soft­ware that’s in beta at the moment, even if I’m not up and running at 100%: Aeon Time­line. Aeon Time­line is time­line soft­ware, yes — but it does a few things that are incred­ibly useful. Enti­ties are defined as char­acter, places, etc. When a char­acter first appears in a time-line event, you can set the char­ac­ters age at that time — and every time the char­acter appears on the time line, his or her age will be noted. This is helpful when you’ve flubbed ages because you’re writing at 4:40 in the morning. You can set loca­tions and char­ac­ters and look at all events on the time­line that involve them, as well; you can have multiple char­ac­ters marked for the same events. You can tag all entries and search on or show tagged entries.

If I did not have 11 books worth of time-line events, I’d be using this now, because it also allows you to define your own calendar year — with month names, day lengths, etc. So for those whose fantasy calen­dars don’t precisely match our own, it’s ideal. When I have time, I add more of the time­line on flat paper to the program; if I’d had this years ago, would have added events as they occurred, and I would have loved it like a crazy person.

29 Responses to Tools of the Trade

  1. RKCharron says:

    Hi Michelle :)
    I found this very inter­esting and helpful.
    I under­stand these appli­ca­tions a lot better now.
    Thank you very much for taking the time to share.
    All the best,
    Rob

  2. Michael says:

    I don’t have an on-line wiki…”

    The ques­tion here is: Why not?!

    I would love to wile away the hours reading through this kind of back­ground content on your work. I would espe­cially love to see your time­lines and char­acter sketches. And your calendar. And your pantheon(s). And your notes on places we’ve never been. And places we have. And pretty much anything you could possibly share about your worlds.

    Of course I’ve wanted this (or some­thing like it) for about as long as I’ve been reading your books (16 years? 17?), so we’re unsur­prised.

  3. Genna Warner says:

    I would love to see the wiki and time­line posted some­where on the web site. I under­stand that since you are constantly using it for the books you are writing now, that publishing it might give things away you don’t what to have out yet. But it would be great to have all the known time line out there for readers to refer­ence.

  4. Shayla says:

    Thanks for this! I’m going to have to check out Aeon and Devon­think. I just started using Scrivener in the last few weeks and I already love it, but I’m defi­nitely in need of a time­line tool… I’m forever jumping back in my work wondering, ‘did they do that two days, or four? what was char­acter x wearing yesterday?’

    Oh, and one more thing: Chap­ters has Cast in Ruin listed as a Sept 20th release… is that correct? Some­times they mess with us :D

  5. Hi Michelle,

    I would like to add my support of Scrivener. I cannot do without it. It is an amazing program. I’ve recom­mended it to my writing friends because it has all the feasible ways that I orga­nize myself AND allows me to color-code easily. I’ve put my entire binder of infor­ma­tion and about half of my randomly collected papers/images into that program and it’s all easily acces­sible and orga­nized. What more could a writer ask for?

    I’m looking into Aeon Time­line and VoodooPad because they just sound like inter­esting and useful programs. I’ve never heard of either of them and one thing I love doing is trying out appli­ca­tions and seeing if they work for me and stream­line some of my process. Thanks for writing about what works for you.

  6. hjbau says:

    Does that mean you actu­ally have a time­line some­where of Evayne? I have always wondered where she has come from when she jumps into a scene. If she was just some­where we were before or will be in the future. I can only imagine the compli­ca­tion of a char­acter that jumps threw time let alone the normal everyday char­ac­ters who travel normally threw time.

    Thank you for this infor­ma­tion.

  7. Certainly can’t speak with any authority, but I can point out that from clues Evayne mentions (or doesn’t wish to talk about!) the oldest things she seems to have seen are the execu­tion of Myrd­dion and a ‘silent’ answer when asked if she had met Veralaan. At the other end of time so to speak is the short scene where she finds Kallan­dras on a battle fields and she helps him move away. Given her geas, she prob­ably ranges over the entire time span of all of the books. Don’t know for sure, but I’d not be surprised if she hadn’t had some expe­ri­ence with both the first-born and the Cities of Man as well…

  8. hjbau says:

    There is a moment where Evayne comes to Stephen and she has just killed her first man and i always wonder who that was. I always wonder if it is obvious, but maybe it hasn’t been said yet. I am not sure that we have seen Evayne kill anyone yet but it is possible she just means that she is coming from the first death that she feels she caused through her inter­fer­ence. Anyone else have any thoughts on that? I am not sure which book that was in. I would guess Hunter’s Death on their way to Aver­alaan.

    I have been looking at this Scrivener program. Very inter­esting.

  9. Michael says:

    It is HD. When Stephan comforts her without asking ques­tions was one of the best memo­ries she had. It was only after she took them on the Winter road on Scarran that she real­ized that even that had its purpose (to keep her robe from devouring Stephan).

    If I recall correctly, there was blood on her hands (but not her robes), implying that she had killed this person herself. I do not believe the iden­tity of the person was ever revealed, though.

    My ques­tion is how Evayne, Arianne, and Sor Na Shannen are in both the Under­city and outside Aver­alaan on Scarran in 410 AA. Was this an acci­dent?

  10. In Hunter’s Oath, Evayne, Espere and Kallan­dras are all in the Under­city — this happens before Hunter’s Death. Scene starts page 115 I think…don’t remember if they confront Shannen there. Not sure about Arianne either.

  11. hjbau says:

    Well i have always been inter­ested in where Evayne was coming from in that scene and who she killed. The blood could have been from someone she held as they died so it could still be someone whose death she is respon­sible for through her inter­fer­ence whereas i agree it is also just as possible that it is someone she actu­ally killed.

    I have always wondered about Evayne’s time­line as it stands now, but it is hard to figure out the order of events from her point of view there is just so much and we don’t know enough at this point. Such a great char­acter.

  12. Ann Kopchik says:

    Scrivener still scares me.

    I know, I know. But all the extras you can do stuff with make me start thinking I should outline and keep little bits of things orga­nized and start doing things *right* (which is a false­hood, since the process that’s right for a writer is the one that *works*) so I drive my anxiety up with thoughts of having to sit down and do a bunch of stuff to be able to write… rather than just writing…

    So, I just write in Pages and keep a lot of stickies. Which, you know, I could do in Scrivener…

    Heh. I’m my own worst enemy, some­times.

  13. What sort of games does someone like Michelle Sagara West play?

    You will note (maybe) the dedi­ca­tion in Cast in Secret. I deserted my guild for three weeks to finish that book, and it was during the last days before Naxxramus 40-man would become irrel­e­vant, so they were trying to finish as much of it as they could. If the dedi­ca­tion makes no sense to you, it was World of Warcraft.

    I stopped raiding completely three years ago and at the moment I’m a very casual player (as in, haven’t logged in in three months). But I’m looking forward to Diablo 3. I am, sadly, crap at FPS’s, and the only PS3 game I’ve played involved me badgering someone else so I could watch (Final Fantasy 13, and the second of a series that I’m blanking on; it’s an Indiana Jones riff but set in the present.)

  14. I don’t have an on-line wiki…”

    The ques­tion here is: Why not?!

    I would love to wile away the hours reading through this kind of back­ground content on your work. I would espe­cially love to see your time­lines and char­acter sketches.

    The answer is: anything that exists on my machine — and only mine — isn’t yet public. It’s incu­bating. It’s in the chrysalid state. Some of my longish notes on The Ten were written long before I’d set word in Aver­alaan — and they changed a lot as I began to write. Not the struc­ture of The Ten, and not the reason for their exis­tence — but the char­ac­ters, the inter­ac­tions, the internal house things. My husband thought he could GM some­thing decent from those notes. But…

    This is why I don’t outline. I can come up with some­thing that makes perfect sense on the page. But as I approach page, the things that make sense shift. Char­ac­ters will say things in conver­sa­tion that I hadn’t planned — and when it’s on the page, it’s so cleary the right thing that I ditch the planned element.

    I won’t say that the books write them­selves; they don’t. I will say that my subcon­scious continues to mull over the char­ac­ters and the world. I have a terrible time writing some­thing with no warning. If someone offered me 10k to write one short story, yes, I’d try — but if it were due tomorrow I’d also ask “Does it have to be good?”

    Sorry, digres­sion there. The point is that the wiki I do have changes. The oldest of stuff isn’t part of the wiki; I’ve never impor­tant the Hunter infor­ma­tion in part because I don’t have anything that can read the old formats they were done in (Clar­is­works), and the one thing I desper­ately want is the colour coding for rank, and the actual titles as one progresses toward Hunter Green.

    The time-line doesn’t change. But it is very, very sketchy. It is not the clean and well orga­nized/­for­mat­ted/­con­sis­tently-styled infor­ma­tion that would normally be exposed to readers; it’s my patch­work of notes-on-the-fly so I can look up times, dates, etc., when I’ve forgotten them (I’m not really good at remember dates in real life, either). My char­acter list is not entirely complete, or rather, there’s one very long list and then three or four shorter lists, which, because of the wiki, can easily be reached. But again — it’s not consis­tent, and it would take a lot of work to move things around to make it so.

    I would also have to strip out the spoiler bits, because they’re littered throughout, as well. I think I once emailed a reader my month-names calendar and only real­ized after that there’s a large future spoiler in it; I’d just cut and paste >.<

  15. Oh, and one more thing: Chap­ters has Cast in Ruin listed as a Sept 20th release… is that correct? Some­times they mess with us :D

    It is correct. The offi­cial publi­ca­tion date is October 2011 — but in general, books for October sales dates are shipped in mid-late September. October is the time at which any store that ordered the (phys­ical) copies should have them in the store. It’s impre­cise because they have to be deliv­ered to ware­houses, and then to distrib­u­tor’s ware­houses, and then to stores.

    But I would expect to see it in the stores by then :)

  16. Does that mean you actu­ally have a time­line some­where of Evayne?

    Evayne is not on the offi­cial time-line; I have a much smaller, and much much messier, time-line of her *age*, and I add events to her age. Honestly, she is logis­ti­cally the worst char­acter ever in terms of diffi­culty. Not in terms of writing her; in that way she’s easier because a sixteen year old who has just walked away from the life she wanted to keep is a much different person from the fifty-five year old upon whom the fate of the world depends.

    But in terms of conti­nuity bits — yes. I’m sure I’ve dropped the ball some­where >.<

  17. Scrivener still scares me.

    I know, I know. But all the extras you can do stuff with make me start thinking I should outline and keep little bits of things orga­nized and start doing things *right* (which is a false­hood, since the process that’s right for a writer is the one that *works*) so I drive my anxiety up with thoughts of having to sit down and do a bunch of stuff to be able to write… rather than just writing…

    So, I just write in Pages and keep a lot of stickies. Which, you know, I could do in Scrivener…

    A). What is this outline you speak of? I can’t do them >.>

    B) The only reason I am at all orga­nized with regards to infor­ma­tion about the Empire and Breo­danir and the Dominion is because I needed to figure out a lot of it before I put words on the page. My char­ac­ters — or my subcon­scious — is alway smarter than I am. But I need to feed it some­thing before it starts to process. The more I feed it, the more natu­rally cultural state of mind, phrases, and actions come through when I do at last start writing them.

    But: I did not do that at all for my first four novels. I think process evolves as we learn what both our strengths and our weak­nesses are.

    However, the real reason I started to use Scrivener was not for its host of really useful features. The truth is I wrote every novel until HIDDEN CITY in MS Word (with two books in Clar­is­Works in between, and to be fair, the first five were in MS Word for DOS). Because MS Word was not famed for its stability, I wrote in chapter files — one file per chapter. But for the Luna CAST novels, this wasn’t helpful, because I would then have to somehow merge them into one file in order to submit. And yes, of course it’s possible in Word — but it’s a total pain, and for someone who doesn’t need to do it more than once a year? I’d have to look it up and learn how to do it all over again each time.

    So I used Scrivener because I could write (and export) one chapter at a time. They were all in one place, and flip­ping between chap­ters did not involve the torturous slow opening of multiple Word docu­ments (and the inevitable slow down or crash of Word), so that was a huge, huge bonus — but the thing that clinched it for me is that exporting my sepa­rate chap­ters to a single docu­ment file was easy and took seconds.

    I realize that this is possibly the worst publicly stated reason for using Scrivener, but there you have it

    The rest of the features that I do use I discov­ered in a haphazard fashion as I became totally comfort­able with the very very basic uses to which I put the program.

    I clip more research files and add them to the Scrivener book file now than I ever used to, but the first two books I wrote in Scrivener were written a chapter at a time. The bits and pieces of func­tion­ality I now use, I’ve added — slowly — into the mix.

    However!

    Writing in Pages is prob­ably very similar. There is no reason at all to change tools when you’re comfort­able with the ones you have. I pick up tools based on two things: OMG SHINY (bad habit of mine >.>) and need. Also, I think Pages from the iPad to Pages on the Mac is prob­ably smoother than Dropbox for Scrivener, but I don’t know.

    Need — avoiding ever merging a second book of 24 sepa­rate files into a single word docu­ment. (Shiny: epub export that after initial set up works in seconds.)

    Need — single docu­ment for world­building detail­s/­time-line/bit char­ac­ters that I will Totally Forget the name of in six years.

    I admit DEVON­Think started out as Shiny and fell into Need as I used it. I am conflicted about trying Tinderbox because it’s yet another orga­ni­za­tional tool but — Shiny >.< I have bunches of little apps (clip­board apps, menu/folder apps) which I didn’t mention. But most of what I try, I don’t use. I tried other writing programs for the Mac, as well.

  18. Michael says:

    GMing some­thing in your world is *exactly* why I want your notes. The world of the West novels is my favorite fantasy world (ever), and there is little I want more than to immerse myself in lore of the setting.

    With many novels and settings, I am careful to avoid spoilers, yet for some reason with yours I just want to know more. More. MORE! All the time. The few tidbits I’ve whee­dled out of you I mull over and examine again and again. It’s a bit of an obses­sion, really. There is no book I’ve read more often than I’ve read Hunter’s Death. There is no char­acter in fiction that I love reading about more than Jewel.

    So while I under­stand and appre­ciate the lack of a public wiki, I am nonethe­less going to go over there and pout until the next Cast book comes out. Maybe I’ll reread all the West novels while I’m waiting; in chrono­log­ical order, this time.

  19. hjbau says:

    I haven’t noticed any ball drop­ping. I bet Evayne can be a pain in that regards. I could imagine that having a time­line of the order of her life events so far may be spoilery. I have always wanted to try and figure it out just because there are times when i wonder if she has just jumped from some­where we have previ­ously seen to where she is now.

    You have done a great job at making the char­acter still seem to be consis­tently the same char­acter just changed because of age. It is fasci­nating to see a char­ac­ter’s growth come and go as she pops through time and also to see others reac­tion to her. Very fasci­nating char­acter.

  20. Ann Kopchik says:

    A) I have no idea. I’ve heard myste­rious rumors about them. (Outlines also make my anxiety rise. Which isn’t to say that I don’t plan… I just don’t fix anything down until its ready.)

    B) Ah! I write entirely in one file per book in Pages. And I hardly ever write out of sequence, so that works fine.

    Pages behaves just fine with large files, and there are some cool things I *really* like, like the search sidebar. It lists every instance of a word you type in a clip of a sentence and you can just click the line to go there (much like searching in a PDF). It’s great because I usually can remember lines or a combo of words for a scene and find the scene like *magic*. Or if I need to change a name, I can see every instance at once.

    iPad*Pages>Mac*Pages is fairly smooth. I’ve used that quite often.

    I really should do some­thing about a time­line. >.< I already found an issue between two books. Luckily, I’m unpub­lished, so I can still *fix* it. But it reminded me that I need to pay more atten­tion to those things. I used to be able to keep all this stuff in my *head*. Alas, no more.

    I think the thing with Scriv­iner is that I like the idea. And I espe­cially like that it’s not a tool from a big corpo­rate conglom­erate and that its designed with writers in mind. I’d *like* to be able to use it. But for now, I think Pages works.

    Also: I may be able to read Clar­is­works files. I know I have before because some of my old work is stuck in .cwk format and I’ve been able to get those files to rise from the dead. But I haven’t done it in a while…

  21. I really should do some­thing about a time­line. >.< I already found an issue between two books. Luckily, I’m unpub­lished, so I can still *fix* it. But it reminded me that I need to pay more atten­tion to those things. I used to be able to keep all this stuff in my *head*. Alas, no more.

    This is why I have a time­line. I can’t keep it all in my head, and some­times all I need at a given point is to know where char­ac­ters in other parts of the world are on the day I’m writing Jewel in House Terafin. But if I didn’t have a time­line, I’d be rereading for dates. I did not, however, use a time­line like this one when I wrote my first books.

    Some of the things I strug­gled with, had to reread for, etc., in the first books caused me to change the way I approached the mate­rial that existed outside of the printed page; I did it purely to save myself future pain

    Outlines have become far, far harder with time. With my very first novel, I did write an outline. And then I changed it at the end of every day. Seri­ously. And then I gave up on changing it, and then I gave up on reading it because it was really very different. That was fine.

    What kills me about outlines now is that the only editor likely to ask for one is in an envi­ron­ment where outlines are taken seri­ously, so if the book changes radi­cally in the process, it could cause diffi­cul­ties.

    Writing an outline which mutated and changed and became distinctly irrel­e­vant when no one but me would ever see any of it was hard enough; writing an outline that is read, paid for, an casts expec­ta­tions over the finished book just kills me.

  22. Kurt says:

    This is inter­esting to hear you say. I’ve always enjoyed, as and exer­cise in perspec­tive, to view the West universe as a non-linear telling of Evayne’s life rather than a linear telling of the lives of the other char­ac­ters. She is my favourite char­acter in your novels (the trinity of Kallan­dras, Meralonne and Isladar being excluded of course).

  23. Randall says:

    the only PS3 game I’ve played involved me badgering someone else so I could watch (Final Fantasy 13, and the second of a series that I’m blanking on; it’s an Indiana Jones riff but set in the present.)

    Uncharted? Or one of the Tomb Raiders, but I’d guess Uncharted.

  24. Lianne says:

    I don’t think there’s a PC version of VoodooPad, but I’d be really surprised if there wasn’t a similar appli­ca­tion avail­able for Windows.

    Well, there is Tiddly­Wiki, which is a free, single file java wiki. It comes as an html file, and each item you open opens in the same space. I’m using it for working out the details on a book I’m trying to write.

  25. Erin says:

    I’m not a fan of spoilers, EVER. HOWEVER, I can say that Jewel is also my favorite char­acter and I too have lost count of the times I’ve read Hunter’s Death…I had to buy a second copy of the book after the first one died! :-D

  26. Erin says:

    I would guess that Evayne is prob­ably the only char­acter that you can get away with small lapses in conti­nuity without any “trouble!” Who’s to say that she can’t be in two places at the same time?! I assume that young Evayne might be able to be in the same day as old Evayne; when you can step through time and space isn’t anything possible? I enjoy reading the books too much to get very picky with the small details anyway. So I try not to sweat the small stuff! Besides, the stories are all so complex! I can’t imagine anyone could get it all written without a few mistakes.

  27. Hilda says:

    I still don’t under­stand Evayne too well, maybe because she comes and goes too fast in the books, so she lacks the conti­nuity the other char­ac­ters have. Her age every time seems irrel­e­vant (I may need to read her scenes again). I think she would be a very diffi­cult char­acter for a writer to handle, because the writer has to purposely remember inserting her in a scene.

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