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CAST IN HONOR


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I just received an email from Amazon that they "were happily letting me know that Cast in Honor book has an earlier delivery date and that I should receive it on November 24 (without any additional charge)". Really. I shouted, then thought about it, and, of course, realized there's still 2 months to go. And it will be early winter. BLAST!!!!

Didn't it just finished? We haven't even had Summer yet. I'm still dreading the 90"s and low 100's of Summer. But better than Winter. YES, I take a Michelle Sagara/West book anytime, anywhere. Hopefully, it will warm the early Winter.

If I did it right, I should also receive the electronic copy. I can read it at night and read it in the light of my tablet 2 months and 2 weeks to go!!!!!


Posted 13 September 2015 - 09:38 PM


Here I'm back again. Of course I am spending time in the computer; I have a most horrible cold that doctors are not doing anything about it. In fact, I have come to think it's a really bad allergy. It's all inside my chest, it rumbles there making all kind of noise, but it won't come out. Sounds like a trapped animal. Then, I looked at my previous topic and realized the time of waiting for HONOR is almost over. FINALLY, FINALLY. If it's not changed at the last minute, in 16 days I will have my book. Now, I'll get more desperate. Have to read it around all I have to do for Thanksgiving. Family told me they are coming here and I don't have the house ready. I wonder if Michelle is going to publish the first chapter. anytime now.


Posted 08 November 2015 - 08:16 PM


  • Tchula
  • Forum moderator
  • 73 posts
  • LocationAshburn, Virginia

First chapter is already up. Check the website for Michelle's most recent blog post.  ;-)


Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:55 PM


  • LocationA dry lakebed high in the mountains
Aaahhhhh!

Thanks a lot, I read the sample chapters, and now I am stuck at a cliffhanger for the next week.

*whimper*

Posted 18 November 2015 - 07:36 PM

~@~ Aquilegia is the genus name of the columbine, my favorite flower. They look like they must have faries living nearby.~@~

~@~My avatar picture is from the painting A Place of Her Own, by James C Christensen.~@~


My bookstore chain (who shall remain nameless) emaild me that my copy is in.


Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:22 AM


  • LocationA dry lakebed high in the mountains
You are on my list.........

Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:02 AM

~@~ Aquilegia is the genus name of the columbine, my favorite flower. They look like they must have faries living nearby.~@~

~@~My avatar picture is from the painting A Place of Her Own, by James C Christensen.~@~


  • LocationA dry lakebed high in the mountains
Huzzah, all done. Now, to go back and retread them all from start to finish.

Posted 25 November 2015 - 06:39 AM

~@~ Aquilegia is the genus name of the columbine, my favorite flower. They look like they must have faries living nearby.~@~

~@~My avatar picture is from the painting A Place of Her Own, by James C Christensen.~@~


  • LocationDeepest, Darkest, South of England

My copy turned up yesterday and I blitzed through it.  As an old girlfriend used to say "the ending broke my feels box."


Posted 26 November 2015 - 12:15 PM

"Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis"


  • LocationA dry lakebed high in the mountains

My copy turned up yesterday and I blitzed through it.  As an old girlfriend used to say "the ending broke my feels box."


I know....
Spoiler

Posted 30 November 2015 - 02:28 AM

~@~ Aquilegia is the genus name of the columbine, my favorite flower. They look like they must have faries living nearby.~@~

~@~My avatar picture is from the painting A Place of Her Own, by James C Christensen.~@~


Well I'm on my third read through now.  Only slight spoiler I'll mention is did anyone else notice that Tain and Teela now have last names in the Halls of Law?  First time I remember their being used.

 

As an aside has anyone else wondered about the fief Calarenenne rules being called Nightshade and him Lord Nightshade if his name is Calarenenne?  Liet was Liet, Tiamaris is Tiamaris , and Barren was Barren for obvious reasons.  So why is Nightshade not Calarenenne?  I did also notice that Annarion was mentioned in this book as being of the line of (can't remember name now) but this was not Nightshade.  Just trying to figure this out?  Any opinions would be helpful. ;-)


Posted 30 November 2015 - 01:46 PM


I'm doing a reread of the series after finishing the latest book, so my memory may be fuzzy - however, I believe Nightshade was the name he took when he became Outcaste, so the fief was named after that and not his original Barrani name, Calarnenne.


Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:04 AM


  • LocationA dry lakebed high in the mountains
It may also be a title of some sort. Like the Arkon.

It sounds, to me, like the name of the fief is the word that is associated most strongly with the fieflord's sense of identity. Be it legal name, nickname, diminutive, title, or surname.

Posted 07 December 2015 - 03:01 AM

~@~ Aquilegia is the genus name of the columbine, my favorite flower. They look like they must have faries living nearby.~@~

~@~My avatar picture is from the painting A Place of Her Own, by James C Christensen.~@~


It's interesting that you tie it to their sense of identity - in this book, I believe for the first time, it is revealed what Nightshade's Barrani family name is - some derivative of Solanaceae, which is another word for Nightshade.

 

So it seems that he took the name Nightshade when he became Outcaste as an homage to his family name, without tarnishing it or what have you.

 

Nightshade is definitely not a title though, I'm pretty certain of that based on all of this.

 

at any rate, I need about 50000000000% more Nightshade in every book. I get that it's Kaylin's story and Nightshade leaving the fief doesn't happen a lot because reasons, but still! I was really hoping that with this book we would see a lot more of him, since the premise was the journey to find him. Instead, we barely get any interaction at all - even tertiary interaction like Gilbert referencing a bit about what Nightshade told him about Kaylin in those 40-odd years.

 

I really needed Gilbert to casually say something like "He spoke of you often - of his Erenne. He wished to watch you become so much more than you were."

 

OR SOMETHING. BUT NO. ALL WE GOT WAS 'he spoke of you, his Lady, and of his brother'

 

It's like, god DANGIT come on people *throws book across the room* 

 

there was a flutter of recognition and longing from Kaylin at the end, though, when Nightshade came to speak with his brother - I can't remember exactly what she 'pushed down' but it was something to do with jealousy. I'm going to go find it.

 

I could rant about Nightshade/Kaylin all day, sorry. They're my favorite characters LOL
 


Posted 07 December 2015 - 06:32 AM


  • LocationA dry lakebed high in the mountains
Considering my screen name is a taxonomic botany term, and all botanic family names end in 'aceae' I feel foolish for not having seen that.

It is true that is the family name for nightshades, but do you realize how broad that family is? Nearly three thousand species. Including potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, nicotine, and petunias as well as the deadly nightshade and many, many weeds. Having Solanaceae as a family name could mean many things.

I am having a wicked urge to call him Petunia, but I won't. Much.

I do find Nightshade fascinating, but I also find him cold, remote, arrogant, and selfish. I would hate to actually be around him. It is my opinion that he needs a lot more character growth before he actually becomes likable. But that is my opinion, I would like it o hear yours.

Posted 07 December 2015 - 03:13 PM

~@~ Aquilegia is the genus name of the columbine, my favorite flower. They look like they must have faries living nearby.~@~

~@~My avatar picture is from the painting A Place of Her Own, by James C Christensen.~@~


  • Cath
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I figured it would have to end that way as soon as I knew time was involved.

 

I don't think Nightshade will ever be our idea of a true partner, but I'm not known as an optimist.  The Helen-Kaylin-Nightshade scene at the end of this book has a lot of interest.  I also think it is getting harder for Severn to go on partnering Kaylin.  And the familiar is picking up some of the work in that department, too.

 

When Kaylin and Nightshade first met - for him! - she called him Nightshade and he said "I am Lord Nightshade.  There is no other."  I don't think he took that name when he became Outcaste, because I suspect he was not Outcaste then.  The Barrani still ruled the city.  He referred to all the Barrani as his kin, without any glancing bitterness or a reminder that he didn't have to obey their laws because he was Outcaste.  He was himself, but he was. . . maybe less jaded, less embittered.  Less sharp.

 

When they talked later, after the meeting happened from *her* perspective, he seems to make clear that he was careful to achieve that meeting and not to do things that might prevent or change it: he tried to read things from her mind at that meeting, and though he said at one point he didn't get much, he really got some important details, I think.  To start with, he knew a dragon was going to be emperor.  I can imagine this not working out well with the High Lord when that situation arose, if Nightshade maybe didn't seem as upset about it as expected.

 

He knew he was going to be fieflord, and possibly that he would be Outcaste (we still don't know why - can a fieflord not be Outcaste, among the Barrani?)  And he knew that his fief would be known as Nightshade.  He knows that he will someday have Meliannos, a named sword, and that may be another possibility for his being Outcaste: what did he have to do to obtain it?

 

I guess I'm thinking those years and what he did to get through them made him what he is (and it probably took longer than he hoped for or expected).  He is not likely to become different.  He is not likely to give up what he sees as strength.  There's a scene in one of the earlier books where he is speaking with Andellon about her.  It gave me chills.  He said something like, "She is not wise, and someday she will come to me."  It would have to be pretty amazing character development for me to believe any kind of humility or real love from Nightshade.


Posted 12 December 2015 - 03:50 AM


I do find Nightshade fascinating, but I also find him cold, remote, arrogant, and selfish. I would hate to actually be around him. It is my opinion that he needs a lot more character growth before he actually becomes likable. But that is my opinion, I would like it o hear yours.

 

Yeah, the last name thing was just an interesting connection to his current name. The name thing seems to be a big deal - the Lady, in Peril, makes a particular show about acknowledging him as "Lord Nightshade....Calarnenne" in front of the gathering in the Hallionne. She calls him Calarnenne as well, sometimes - or references him as such. Cath makes a good point that in the Silence time jump, he seems to be going by Nightshade then (and was almost certainly not Outcaste as he was wearing his Arcanist tiara - or whatever that was). So there was a specific shift from Calarnenne to Nightshade that had nothing to do with being Outcaste. Very curious, as I don't think it's something Barrani do (shift names). He's never Lord Calarnenne, but always Lord Nightshade. Just super interesting, I wonder if we'll ever get anything to explain it.

 

As for Nightshade...I'll admit I've always been incredibly drawn to his character, from book one. For Kaylin, he is very difficult to understand and she is only now, slowly, beginning to. He is Barrani. And he is, by all accounts, "not young." - he has lived through at least two of the Draco-Barrani wars, is as old and possibly older than Teela. He was very good friends with the previous High Lord and that tells you how old he has to be right there. He's had millenia of existing in a political maelstrom where even your most trusted friends are a risk - where anything other than showing and wielding power was seen as a weakness. He mentioned at some point how he had survived a family who was 'particularly given to political machinations' which basically means backstabbing and killing people (and each other) for power. That's all he's really ever known - he cares very little for mortals in the grand scheme of things (just as we feel for insects, really - though that's not the best comparison) - everything he does is a chess match, he's constantly thinking four or five moves ahead in order to survive and get things he once.

 

We've seen that even for Barrani, he is unkind and arrogant and more powerful than I think any of them, but he spoke wistfully (for Nightshade) of love being part of youth - almost envying Kaylin for her ability to love so openly, because she was mortal and felt the years with urgency - and his youth was described as "impulsive and feckless" - the same words that were used to describe Kaylin merely pages after. In the past, in Sorrow, Kaylin noticed that he was different than "her Nightshade" - he seemed somehow more open, his laugh had less of an edge and he smiled more. Being Outcaste weighs heavily on the Barrani - Andellen was barred from the High Court for his loyalty to Nightshade, but you could see in Courtlight how much he still yearned for it (which is why Kaylin asks for what she does, and why he responds the way he does). I'm of the opinion that whatever Nightshade did to become Outcaste was a specific choice, for whatever reason, and his close friend the High Lord was the one who made him Outcaste - without anyone else knowing why. He's in self imposed exile, wielding power over a Castle who is not always happy about it - waiting for Kaylin.

 

I rant, but basically - I see his actions through everything we know - and don't know - about him. Every single small thing he does is a hint towards what he feels - remember in, I think, Chaos when Kaylin was leaving his castle she commented briefly on how the cages that had used to hold bodies and people as a warning in the fief - they were gone. The only reason they would been gone was if Nightshade willed it - why would he do that, after centuries of it? Because Kaylin didn't like them. It wasn't because he changed his feelings on the matter, but he recognized they made her uncomfortable and removed them. He also made a similar comment when he was escorting her out of the castle portal and said something, as she was clearly thinking about how much she preferred the Tower of Tiamaris to the castle, to the effect of "I know you would prefer it if I were more welcoming, but I cannot allow that vulnerability into my Castle." He was speaking about the existence of his portal in the castle...or was he? =)

 

He recognizes her history, he told her quietly that he would "never allow Barren to take you" when she goes to investigate - signaling he understands her fear and past. Later, he expresses that he should have killed Barren and spared her the trauma - but was terrified of changing the future.

 

When she asks if he knew the Regalia would be about the children - he responds with "I hoped," - this was almost immediately after both he and Teela had warned her that hope was the edge of a sword that sliced you no matter what, and caused nothing but bitterness. Kaylin represents, in my opinion, his ability to hope. He will never be human, he will never appreciate life in the way that Kaylin does - but through Kaylin, because of her heart, he acknowledges it and she acts as a sort of humanity-check for him - the "what would kaylin do" approach. Similar to how Kaylin does all the work with the foundlings/midwives because it makes her feel good, not because of any altruistic purpose - that doesn't change the good in the act, though. Same for Nightshade.

 

I don't know, like I said I could talk about him for a long time and I'm rereading the series with the explicit purpose of analyzing him...so all those little things you begin to notice and understand as you read with that context. 

 

All very interesting - but for certain, Nightshade can do good things and I think he has an anti-hero presence in the series...but ultimately everything he does is for Kaylin and her story as Chosen - after all, he hears the special and unique Regalia around her - and knows that he is a key player and is being tested. Everything that he has done since he first met her, 400 years ago, has been for that - to prepare. For her. 

 

 

I guess I'm thinking those years and what he did to get through them made him what he is (and it probably took longer than he hoped for or expected).  He is not likely to become different.  He is not likely to give up what he sees as strength.  There's a scene in one of the earlier books where he is speaking with Andellon about her.  It gave me chills.  He said something like, "She is not wise, and someday she will come to me."  It would have to be pretty amazing character development for me to believe any kind of humility or real love from Nightshade.

 

I ranted about it above, and yes - there is a lot of stress on the fact that Barrani don't change - the true names and the stories, once spoken, are permanent (but that brings up my whole theory about true names in relation to Nightshade - they are the essence of the Barrani, look at the High Lord - his name was twice as long because of the burden he would have to carry during this tenure. What does Nightshade's speak of? His name was chosen by the Consort for a reason - maybe it was this very Regalia of Kaylin's, and everything he's been and done has been in keeping with his true purpose...). The Hallionne seemed alarmed when Kaylin spoke of changing stories, lol. He is terribly arrogant, even for a Barrani, and that is where I think the "she is not wise" comes from - it's also an allusion to how much he knows and has learned in preparation for the Chosen. He also speaks with great confidence that she is worthy of him - and for Barrani, that basically means she's his equal if anything.

 

As for development, I have a very very sneaking suspicion (though I really hope not) that, in the end, he dies for her - I see something akin to how he and the Lady would sing the Hallionne awake - and how she collapsed and he carried on. For some reason, I see him doing that for Kaylin - so she can have time to complete her final task as Chosen. She bears the marks at this time for a specific reason, and it is unlikely to come without sacrifice. I don't expect that Kaylin will come to terms with her desire for Nightshade and the weird pull they have towards each other, but I do see it happening once he shows her, finally, his heart - the heart of his castle, for a good analogy (which has been alluded to in the past). I really hope that he doesn't die and I can fantasize about him and Kaylin eventually being drawn together for good, but I think something truly epic is coming in the final battle and someone will give themselves up for her success. Severn has already sacrificed so much, he's just too open for it to be any shock that he sacrifice himself for Kaylin, but with Nightshade...at least to Kaylin, it's always been very ambiguous whether his interest in her is for her power or her. I think something like that would finally answer that question definitively. 

 

But here's hoping he doesn't actually die in the process =p


Posted 12 December 2015 - 08:52 PM


  • Tchula
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  • LocationAshburn, Virginia

I know what you mean and I agree!  :wub:

 


at any rate, I need about 50000000000% more Nightshade in every book.

I could rant about Nightshade/Kaylin all day, sorry. They're my favorite characters LOL


Posted 12 December 2015 - 10:50 PM


  • Tchula
  • Forum moderator
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  • LocationAshburn, Virginia

Also, I wanted to point out that I believe Teela is older than Nightshade. At some point, in one of the books (maybe Peril?) she refers to him as "a feckless pup" or some such, which I took to mean that he was younger than she. I'm in the midst of a re-read of the series, so if I find the passage, I'll post it. It seems strange that Teela could be older, especially since Annarion and Mandoran are her friends, but since we don't really know the age spread between Nightshade and Annarion, and amongst any of the Barrani "children", it's entirely possible, I suppose.

But yes, I feel there is much more to Nightshade than the arrogance we see. He has the loyalty and friendship (which is rare for Barrani) of Andellen, and he made friends with Gilbert--and Tiamaris, too, for that matter. I believe he must be a man worthy of this kind of feeling, although it may not be apparent to Kaylin, who is young and fairly inexperienced in judging people's characters imo. I really want to see more of him, and even better, I would like to see him interact more with Kaylin when she is at home amongst her friends (Teela and Tain, especially--I'd love to see that!)  ;-)


Posted 12 December 2015 - 11:10 PM


I'm so glad you agree! I've been reading through the fansofmichellesagarawest.wordpress.com "Nightlin" thread and I'm just like 'yes yes all off this yes', too bad no ones really used it in like 2 years. Feel like replying to all of them and telling them to come here and talk if they're not already.

 

I need more Nightshade lovers in my life.

 

Anyway, Michelle is one of those 'show not tell' authors, where with Kaylin and esp Nightshade we're supposed to read their actions more than their words so that's why I'm doing my re-read and literally documenting each moment now that I have the whole context of the book and the series.

 

How many books do we have left? I'd be okay with it going on for a lot longer, but I need more Nightshade =p 

 

As for Teela being older..that's possible! I just finished my Peril re-read, but isn't Annarion Nightshade's younger brother? If so, that means that Nightshade would've already been into maturity when the Regalia with the children happened and also means that Teela, who was also a "child", would've been younger than Nightshade. I'm about to start the next book so I'll be able to confirm.


Posted 13 December 2015 - 01:18 AM


  • LocationColorado

I enjoyed this book a lot, but...there were a lot of errors. A lot more than usual, some of them actually bothered me. I'm only going to list the main ones, but was anyone else bothered?

 

1) We lost Barrani Hawks in Cast in Peril - so we're actually down 7

2) Meliannos was spelled Melliannos (and I do not like the extra 'l')

3) Marcus is now Hassan instead of Kassan

 

I'm also not a fan of all the new last names (Teela and Tain). To have them suddenly appear caught me offguard and they just don't seem to fit...

 

As for Teela being older than Nightshade...I don't think that is the case, as Caisha pointed out Annarion is Nightshade's younger brother and while Nightshade might not have been a Lord of the High Court at the time of the disasterous recitation he was definitely too old to be considered as one of the children which therefore implies that Teela would have to be younger than Nightshade.

 

As for the fief's name...that is one question I have always had. I oftened wonder what the fief of Tiamaris would be called if Kaylin had claimed it. Yes she would have given it her true name, but given the fiefs...I often wonder if the name of the fief is the name that the fieflord acknowledges as their 'public' name. As Nightshade was not yet Outcaste when Kaylin met him in Cast in Silence, but he still knew that name. Which implies it could be something tied to his line.


Posted 13 December 2015 - 02:17 AM





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